I believe Eliezer has the best overall understanding of the issues related to alignment.
Also, I'm confident there is a solution.
This will only resolve if Eliezer looks at my algorithm.
If he does, this will only resolve yes if, after review, his new p(doom) is < 0.1. (10%)
It will only resolve yes with Eliezer's consent.
It will resolve no otherwise.
2 min general overview by request.
Update: Due to integrity and logistic concerns in the comments, the above prediction will resolve N/A on Jan 1st 2030.
@Ajelenbogen It would've been easier to say, 'I don't think Eliezer is going to look at your work.', which has been said already by dozens of others in the comments. I'd tell you it's a waste of everyone's time to contribute duplicate comments, but then I'd be a hypocrite. I just wish someone would actually put money into which proposition in my argument they believe is wrong because doing that produces the incentive for Eliezer to resolve it.
@Krantz you should share your data showing your secret algorithm is more effective than all normal advertising and educational content if you want to convince people this is not a waste of time.
If your secret algorithm so effectively scales collective human intelligence beyond every other social structure we’ve created (eg. companies solving incredibly complex problems using aligned incentives for their component humans), a first priority should be recruiting some trusted friends and using this secret power with your combined super intelligence to figure out how you can make a more convincing sales pitch (considering you got Yudkowsky to comment here but failed to show anything he deemed worthwhile).
@Krantz genuinely the bit about writing down ones thinking, being able to argue between people without talking to them by reading their lines of reasoning and evidence, verifying their individual humanity, and having other people fund this thinking and learning is a good approach to figuring things out with collective intelligence.
We know that because that’s how publicly funded academic research works.
It’s unlikely turning everyone into academics who have microgrants in the form of trading back and forth some cryptocurrency is going to be very effective, efficient, have a consistent source of funding, or increase agreement. It’s common for people to agree on some facts but disagree on narratives and subjective conclusions. AI alignment is one such area.
@Krantz either the resolution will be N/A as you claim, in which case there's no incentive to bet, or something else will happen, in which case no sensible investor should touch this market with a 10-foot pole at this point
@AriZerner I can't discern what point you are trying to make. For all cases of x, such that x is an event, x will either happen or something else will.
The proposition 'something else will happen' (referring to this market resolving yes or no) doesn't seem to imply that 'no sensible investor should touch this market with a 10-foot pole'. Were there additional propositions you used in your reasoning that you did not write out?
@AriZerner We can make this point clearer by applying your argument to a wager about a basketball game between the Chicago Bulls and the New York Knicks. Either, that wager will resolve na (because the game might get canceled), or something else will happen.
This is true, yet I have no apriori justification to believe that a sensible investor should not wager on such a game.
@Krantz There’s a strong chance you already managed to force Yudkowsky to read it through one of the vectors you’ve clearly tried to use to access him online, and if that's the case his behavior would indicate he already dismissed it. He’s not so famous as to be completely inaccessible and you appear to have a lot of persistence plus an obsession with him specifically.
It's notable the vectors you are not apparently using are the ones which would be the most convincing (trying to publish it with peer review, showing a working small scale reference implementation, detailing it in a best selling book, even putting something on Arxiv for the internet to review).
This business about:
Unfortunately, it would also help LLMs reason more effectively and possible piss off intelligence agencies as much as Bitcoin pissed off the banks, so it's not online anywhere.
Does not take into account the fact that if you get this guy to look at it and he finds it convincing, the very next step would be to start sharing it so others can check it. You could do that now.
This makes it extremely likely this market will N/A or, as they said, “something else will happen” which is extremely unpredictable based on the thought patterns displayed in your posts.
Edit: I scrolled down and saw he actually already looked at your posts here.
@Krantz also if this secret algorithm were so powerful it will cause LLMs to rapidly gain reasoning abilities beyond all current research tracks and is therefore such a terrifying info hazard you can’t share it with anyone, you’d have made a tech equivalent of ice-nine and p(doom) would be higher.
It can not be both a good solution we can implement globally to save the world from run away AI and something so hazardous you need to keep it secret from everyone lest it cause run away AI.
@Krantz I make this reply on the off-chance you're simply naive rather than in bad faith, but this will be my last engagement with your sealioning here. My reasoning contains one additional proposition: if this market resolves other than N/A, then you, the creator, are a liar, and one would be foolish to invest in any market you have the power to resolve.
Here's an argument if anyone would like to engage with the claims I'm asserting.
https://manifold.markets/Krantz/which-proposition-will-be-denied?r=S3JhbnR6
I don't believe I am able to do that. It would need to be an admin correct?
Overall, I am open to whatever method incentivises users to produce an accurate prediction.
Resolving to NA seems like it would produce many comments criticizing how it would be a complete waste of time (assuming they had a high confidence that it would default to na).
With partial, people could at least bet it down to 2% and profit from the wagers I've already placed.
Also, this isn't Rob Miles, correct?
If you are, please just provide me a secure place to send you a document (after somehow demonstrating that you are).
@Krantz One problem with resolve-to-market is that the incentives are weird - e.g. someone could bet it up not because they think the true probability should be higher, but because they think they can spend enough to keep it up there and then it will resolve to their profit. At low percentages, someone playing that game has a significant edge, e.g. at 10%, NO bettors would have to out-spend them at 10:1. In a normal market that I believed would resolve to reality, I'm willing to outspend 10:1, or to take as big of a bite as I want and then allow the market to do what it wants - I don't have to keep the price down to profit. But if it's going to resolve-to-market, then I have to bet that my bankroll is 10x theirs or else I lose.
The resolution could be conditional on the market holding steady at a given percentage for a full week.
In other words, it would resolve as soon as the following conditions are met.
It's after Jan 1st 2026
The percentage has not changed for 7 days.
I'll wait to hear everyone else's complaints before I adjust the description...
@Krantz That's also been tried elsewhere; it has a related issue where anyone can always make the percentage change temporarily if they don't want it to resolve at the current value (e.g. because they're in the red). Check out other 'self-resolving' markets around here - a lot of related things have been tried, and as far as I know no one has come up with a satisfactory solution to this problem, though some are more broken than others.
This will only resolve if Eliezer looks at my algorithm.
I knew this might not be quick, or might not happen at all. I know some users don't like long-term markets, especially after loans were removed, but I can't say I didn't know what I was getting into here. I was only surprised by how many YES shares @Krantz was willing to buy well above 2%, but that's not an issue on its own.
I'd be ok with the market staying open, under the original terms. Or an N/A. But changing the market to new criteria does not sit well with me. No matter how well-intended, the suggestions so far are isomorphic to whalebait or other toy markets; if I want to play in a toy market, I'll go find one, I don't need a game retroactively applied to my already-held shares.
FWIW, I actually think the situation with resolution criteria here has parallels to the original question. @Krantz thinks he has a simple solution, proposes it, but it turns out to have some simple flaws. There's no disrespect meant here. I'd like to see prediction markets used more in this way. And God knows we could use more minds working on the alignment problem. I think we'd be friends if we knew each other IRL, you have a lot of interesting knowledge about this topic. But I've watched your videos, read your links, tried to follow the clues you've revealed (bad practice for an 'infohazard'), and I still don't think you've found a solution, and I'm holding more NO shares than anyone else, Ṁ where my mouth is.
I pledge on Kant’s name to try as hard as I can to consent.
This is from the criteria in your other related market. But if you can hold the same standard here, I think you will eventually come around to resolving this NO, with or without further input from EY.
Also, this isn't Rob Miles, correct?
(I'm going to roll a d10 here with the standard terms for plausible deniability) Nope! Just a fan with a similar name. Sometimes I think I might be this Rob though: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Rob
Wow. This is incredibly charitable! Thank you for the time you've invested! I would be happy to modify the criteria to resolve N/A on Jan 1st 2026. The only reason I chose partial instead was to avoid being a burden for moderators (I understand they would be required for this and it is recommended to avoid in FAQ). I figured that everyone would expect and be content with the market being bet down to and resolving at 2% thus only distributing my mana to other users.
The goal of this for me, is not to earn mana, but to convert mana into attention on an issue I think is important to think about.
"Krantz thinks he has a simple solution"
Well, sort of. The 'simple' part of the solution is to build an interpretable machine that effectively pays individuals to learn important things (a collective intelligence).
That's a pretty simple solution that I would expect others to be able to see could be a game theoretic way to approach the problem relatively easily (A solution for how to 'teach' the world at scale not to build dangerous systems in the first place). This is what https://manifold.markets/Krantz/krantz-mechanism-demonstration?r=S3JhbnR6 and other predictions were aimed at. If anyone has an argument for why a machine (assuming it worked) wouldn't help that particular situation, I'd love to hear it.
The part I can't expect others to understand, is the architecture for how that could be computationally feasible or scalable. That part is probably going to take several hours of rigorous examination and a decent understanding of the aims of Doug Lenat and Danny Hillis. That part, is what I'd like for @EliezerYudkowsky to look at. I've been trying to just simply get his attention for several years now with no success. I'm typically blocked at every attempt, so I'm kind of out of options. If I can convert a couple hundred dollars worth of mana into a charitable price for some of the people around him to become interested in the approach, maybe their influence will do more than another desperate email from me.
Thanks again.