If Eliezer Yudkowsky charitably reviews my work, he will update his p(doom) to < 0.1. (Below 10%)
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I believe Eliezer has the best overall understanding of the issues related to alignment.

Also, I'm confident there is a solution.

This will only resolve if Eliezer looks at my algorithm.

If he does, this will only resolve yes if, after review, his new p(doom) is < 0.1. (10%)

It will only resolve yes with Eliezer's consent.

It will resolve no otherwise.

2 min general overview by request.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/qqCdphfBdHxPzHFgt/how-to-avoid-death-by-ai?utm_campaign=post_share&utm_source=link

Update: Due to integrity and logistic concerns in the comments, the above prediction will resolve N/A on Jan 1st 2030.

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sold Ṁ512 NO

I am selling my shares in this market. It is very clear at this point that NA will be the resolution on Jan 1st 2030 and there is no need to have mana sitting in this market between now and then. No other resolution seems very likely here.

@Ajelenbogen It would've been easier to say, 'I don't think Eliezer is going to look at your work.', which has been said already by dozens of others in the comments. I'd tell you it's a waste of everyone's time to contribute duplicate comments, but then I'd be a hypocrite. I just wish someone would actually put money into which proposition in my argument they believe is wrong because doing that produces the incentive for Eliezer to resolve it.

@Krantz you should share your data showing your secret algorithm is more effective than all normal advertising and educational content if you want to convince people this is not a waste of time.

If your secret algorithm so effectively scales collective human intelligence beyond every other social structure we’ve created (eg. companies solving incredibly complex problems using aligned incentives for their component humans), a first priority should be recruiting some trusted friends and using this secret power with your combined super intelligence to figure out how you can make a more convincing sales pitch (considering you got Yudkowsky to comment here but failed to show anything he deemed worthwhile).

@LiamZ Thanks for the feedback!

@Krantz genuinely the bit about writing down ones thinking, being able to argue between people without talking to them by reading their lines of reasoning and evidence, verifying their individual humanity, and having other people fund this thinking and learning is a good approach to figuring things out with collective intelligence.

We know that because that’s how publicly funded academic research works.

It’s unlikely turning everyone into academics who have microgrants in the form of trading back and forth some cryptocurrency is going to be very effective, efficient, have a consistent source of funding, or increase agreement. It’s common for people to agree on some facts but disagree on narratives and subjective conclusions. AI alignment is one such area.

Loans are back. Will someone bet this down yet?

Still trying to save humanity..

@Krantz either the resolution will be N/A as you claim, in which case there's no incentive to bet, or something else will happen, in which case no sensible investor should touch this market with a 10-foot pole at this point

@AriZerner I can't discern what point you are trying to make. For all cases of x, such that x is an event, x will either happen or something else will.

The proposition 'something else will happen' (referring to this market resolving yes or no) doesn't seem to imply that 'no sensible investor should touch this market with a 10-foot pole'. Were there additional propositions you used in your reasoning that you did not write out?

@AriZerner We can make this point clearer by applying your argument to a wager about a basketball game between the Chicago Bulls and the New York Knicks. Either, that wager will resolve na (because the game might get canceled), or something else will happen.

This is true, yet I have no apriori justification to believe that a sensible investor should not wager on such a game.

@Krantz There’s a strong chance you already managed to force Yudkowsky to read it through one of the vectors you’ve clearly tried to use to access him online, and if that's the case his behavior would indicate he already dismissed it. He’s not so famous as to be completely inaccessible and you appear to have a lot of persistence plus an obsession with him specifically.

It's notable the vectors you are not apparently using are the ones which would be the most convincing (trying to publish it with peer review, showing a working small scale reference implementation, detailing it in a best selling book, even putting something on Arxiv for the internet to review).

This business about:

Unfortunately, it would also help LLMs reason more effectively and possible piss off intelligence agencies as much as Bitcoin pissed off the banks, so it's not online anywhere.

Does not take into account the fact that if you get this guy to look at it and he finds it convincing, the very next step would be to start sharing it so others can check it. You could do that now.

This makes it extremely likely this market will N/A or, as they said, “something else will happen” which is extremely unpredictable based on the thought patterns displayed in your posts.

Edit: I scrolled down and saw he actually already looked at your posts here.

@Krantz also if this secret algorithm were so powerful it will cause LLMs to rapidly gain reasoning abilities beyond all current research tracks and is therefore such a terrifying info hazard you can’t share it with anyone, you’d have made a tech equivalent of ice-nine and p(doom) would be higher.

It can not be both a good solution we can implement globally to save the world from run away AI and something so hazardous you need to keep it secret from everyone lest it cause run away AI.

@Krantz I make this reply on the off-chance you're simply naive rather than in bad faith, but this will be my last engagement with your sealioning here. My reasoning contains one additional proposition: if this market resolves other than N/A, then you, the creator, are a liar, and one would be foolish to invest in any market you have the power to resolve.

sold Ṁ1,798 NO

Selling to not keep mana locked up for so long

Here's an argument if anyone would like to engage with the claims I'm asserting.

https://manifold.markets/Krantz/which-proposition-will-be-denied?r=S3JhbnR6

Update: Due to integrity and logistic concerns in the comments, the above prediction will resolve N/A on Jan 1st 2026. Also, I will no longer bet this market above 2%.

@Krantz Loans resolve aforementioned logistical concerns. Close date returned to 2030.

Update: Due to integrity and logistic concerns in the comments, the above prediction will resolve partially to the current market evaluation on Jan 1st 2026. Also, I will no longer bet this market above 2%.

Surely an N/A is better?

I don't believe I am able to do that. It would need to be an admin correct?

Overall, I am open to whatever method incentivises users to produce an accurate prediction.

Resolving to NA seems like it would produce many comments criticizing how it would be a complete waste of time (assuming they had a high confidence that it would default to na).

With partial, people could at least bet it down to 2% and profit from the wagers I've already placed.

Also, this isn't Rob Miles, correct?

If you are, please just provide me a secure place to send you a document (after somehow demonstrating that you are).

@Krantz One problem with resolve-to-market is that the incentives are weird - e.g. someone could bet it up not because they think the true probability should be higher, but because they think they can spend enough to keep it up there and then it will resolve to their profit. At low percentages, someone playing that game has a significant edge, e.g. at 10%, NO bettors would have to out-spend them at 10:1. In a normal market that I believed would resolve to reality, I'm willing to outspend 10:1, or to take as big of a bite as I want and then allow the market to do what it wants - I don't have to keep the price down to profit. But if it's going to resolve-to-market, then I have to bet that my bankroll is 10x theirs or else I lose.

The resolution could be conditional on the market holding steady at a given percentage for a full week.

In other words, it would resolve as soon as the following conditions are met.

  1. It's after Jan 1st 2026

  2. The percentage has not changed for 7 days.

I'll wait to hear everyone else's complaints before I adjust the description...

resolve-to-market just makes this some sort of whalebait, likely would just randomly hover at 50%.

@Krantz That's also been tried elsewhere; it has a related issue where anyone can always make the percentage change temporarily if they don't want it to resolve at the current value (e.g. because they're in the red). Check out other 'self-resolving' markets around here - a lot of related things have been tried, and as far as I know no one has come up with a satisfactory solution to this problem, though some are more broken than others.

This will only resolve if Eliezer looks at my algorithm.

I knew this might not be quick, or might not happen at all. I know some users don't like long-term markets, especially after loans were removed, but I can't say I didn't know what I was getting into here. I was only surprised by how many YES shares @Krantz was willing to buy well above 2%, but that's not an issue on its own.

I'd be ok with the market staying open, under the original terms. Or an N/A. But changing the market to new criteria does not sit well with me. No matter how well-intended, the suggestions so far are isomorphic to whalebait or other toy markets; if I want to play in a toy market, I'll go find one, I don't need a game retroactively applied to my already-held shares.

FWIW, I actually think the situation with resolution criteria here has parallels to the original question. @Krantz thinks he has a simple solution, proposes it, but it turns out to have some simple flaws. There's no disrespect meant here. I'd like to see prediction markets used more in this way. And God knows we could use more minds working on the alignment problem. I think we'd be friends if we knew each other IRL, you have a lot of interesting knowledge about this topic. But I've watched your videos, read your links, tried to follow the clues you've revealed (bad practice for an 'infohazard'), and I still don't think you've found a solution, and I'm holding more NO shares than anyone else, Ṁ where my mouth is.

I pledge on Kant’s name to try as hard as I can to consent.

This is from the criteria in your other related market. But if you can hold the same standard here, I think you will eventually come around to resolving this NO, with or without further input from EY.

Also, this isn't Rob Miles, correct?

(I'm going to roll a d10 here with the standard terms for plausible deniability) Nope! Just a fan with a similar name. Sometimes I think I might be this Rob though: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Rob

Wow.  This is incredibly charitable!  Thank you for the time you've invested!  I would be happy to modify the criteria to resolve N/A on Jan 1st 2026.  The only reason I chose partial instead was to avoid being a burden for moderators (I understand they would be required for this and it is recommended to avoid in FAQ).  I figured that everyone would expect and be content with the market being bet down to and resolving at 2% thus only distributing my mana to other users. 

The goal of this for me, is not to earn mana, but to convert mana into attention on an issue I think is important to think about.

"Krantz thinks he has a simple solution"

Well, sort of.  The 'simple' part of the solution is to build an interpretable machine that effectively pays individuals to learn important things (a collective intelligence). 

That's a pretty simple solution that I would expect others to be able to see could be a game theoretic way to approach the problem relatively easily (A solution for how to 'teach' the world at scale not to build dangerous systems in the first place).  This is what https://manifold.markets/Krantz/krantz-mechanism-demonstration?r=S3JhbnR6 and other predictions were aimed at.  If anyone has an argument for why a machine (assuming it worked) wouldn't help that particular situation, I'd love to hear it.

 

The part I can't expect others to understand, is the architecture for how that could be computationally feasible or scalable.  That part is probably going to take several hours of rigorous examination and a decent understanding of the aims of Doug Lenat and Danny Hillis.  That part, is what I'd like for @EliezerYudkowsky to look at.  I've been trying to just simply get his attention for several years now with no success.  I'm typically blocked at every attempt, so I'm kind of out of options.  If I can convert a couple hundred dollars worth of mana into a charitable price for some of the people around him to become interested in the approach, maybe their influence will do more than another desperate email from me.

Thanks again.

Krantz Mechanism Demonstration
This prediction is aimed at demonstrating the function of the krantz mechanism. The krantz mechanism is an abstract format for storing information. Similar to 'the set of integers', it does not exist in the physical world. To demonstrate the set of integers, we make physical approximations of the abstract idea by writing them down.  Humans have created symbols that point to these elements and have shared them with each other (to ensure the process of decentralization) and agreed to use the same ones so nobody gets confused. To demonstrate the krantz mechanism, we make a symbolic approximation of the abstract idea, by writing down elements of the form ('Any formal proposition.', confidence=range(0-1), value=range(0-1)). My claim is that the krantz mechanism is an operation that can be applied to approximate a person's internal model of the world.  Much how LLMs can infinitely scale to approximate a person's model of the language itself, krantz aims to compress the logical relation of observable truths that language points at. For this demonstration, I will not be using value=range(0-1) and will only be using ('This is a proposition.', confidence=range(.01-.99)) (due to limitations of the current Manifold system).   If I were working at Manifold, I would recommend creating a secondary metric for expressing the degree to which the 'evaluation of confidence' is valuable.  This will later play a critical role in the decentralization of attention. A proposition can be any expression of language that points to a discrete truth about the user's internal world model.  Analytic philosophers write arguments using propositions.  Predictions are a subset of propositions.  Memes and other forms of visual expression can also be true or false propositions (They can point to an expression of the real state of the observable Universe).  Things that are not discrete propositions:  Expressions that contain multiple propositions, blog posts, most videos, or simple ideas like 'liberty' or 'apple'.   Each proposition (first element of the set) must have these properties. (1) Is language. A language can be very broad in the abstract sense of the krantz mechanism, but for this posting, we will restrict language to a string of characters that points to a proposition or logical relation of propositions. (2) Is true or false. Can have a subjective confidence assigned to it by an observer. (3) Has value. Represents a market evaluation of how important that idea is to society.  This is distinct from representing the value the idea has specifically to the user.  It is aimed to represent roughly what a member of society would be willing to pay for that truth to be well accepted by society.  One example of this would be taxes.  Ideally, we pay our taxes because we want someone to establish and become familiar with the issues in our environment that are important to us, make sure people know how to fix them, make sure society will reward them if they do and make sure society understands the need to reward the individuals that do resolve the problems.  We pay our taxes, so people will do things for us.  We do this on social media with likes and shares.  We give up attention to the algorithm to endorse and support other ideas in society because we believe in investing value into directing attention to it.  We do this in education and professional careers.  Our economy is driven because it rewards those that succeed in figuring out how to do what society needed done and direct the energy to do it. We give our children rewards for doing their homework because it is important for engineers to understand math.  Soon all that will be left is learning and verifying where to direct the abundant energy to accomplish the tasks that we should.  It is a way of pointing the cognitive machinery of the collective consciousness.   Propositions as logical relations: Since propositions can be written as conditionals, like 'If Socrates is a man, then Socrates is mortal.' or as nested conditionals, like 'If all men are mortal, then 'If Socrates is a man, then Socrates is mortal.'.', it follows that the work of analytic philosophers can be defined within a theoretical object like the krantz mechanism.  For example, every element of the Tractatus is a member of the krantz set.  Every logical relation defined by the outline of the Tractatus is a member of the krantz set.  As a user, you can browse through the Tractatus and assign a confidence and value to each element (explicit and conditional) and create a market evaluation of the ideas contained.  If hundreds of other philosophers created works like the Tractatus (but included confidences and values), then we would be able to compile their lists together into a collective market evaluation of ideas.  A collective intelligence. Society seemed to enjoy continental philosophy more, so we ended up with LLMs instead of krantz functions. It is important to note, that philosophy is quite a wide domain.  The content in the krantz set can range from political opinions, to normative values, to basic common sense facts (the domain approximated by CYC), to arguments about the forefront of technology and what future we should pursue.  We could solve philosophy.  We could define our language.  If @EliezerYudkowsky wanted to insert his full Tractatus of arguments for high p(doom) into such a system, then we could create a market mechanism that rewards only the individuals that either (1) identify a viable analytic counterargument that achieves greater market support or (2) align with his arguments (because, assuming they are complete and sound, it would allow for Eliezer to exploit the market contradiction between propositions that logically imply each other).  For example, if Bob denies 'Socrates is mortal' but has accepted 'Socrates is a man.' and 'All men are mortal.', both with confidence(.99), then he will create a market variance by wagering on anything lower than the product of those confidences.  So, why would Bob wager in the market of 'Socrates is mortal.'?  Liquidity.  Somebody that wants Bob to demonstrate to society that he believes 'Socrates is mortal' injected it. Limitations of the current incentive structure in Manifold and what I'd recommend considering to change: There is a fundamental difference between Manifold and Metaculus.  The difference is in whether or not capital is needed to be put down in order to earn points.  Metaculus embraces a mechanism that is beneficial for the user with no capital, but insight into the truth.  Manifold uses a mechanism that requires capital investment, but attracts more participation.  Both concerns can be addressed by handling liquidity injection as the primary driver of incentives.  When a user wants to inject capital into a market, they can inject liquidity into particular propositions directly (this could also be done by assigning a value(0-1) and distributing liquidity proportionally across propositions from a general supply). That liquidity is dispersed evenly across either all or a select group of users as funds that can be wagered only on that proposition.  Think of the liquidity as a 'proxy bet' the house (in this case the individuals injecting liquidity into the market) is letting the user place on what the market confidence will trend to.  If the user fails to place a wager, the free bet may be retracted if liquidity is withdrawn from the fund.  If the user places a wager and loses, the user can no longer place any free wagers on that proposition (unless further liquidity is contributed which then would allow the user to freely invest the difference), but may still choose to wager their own funds up to the amount allocated for the free wager.  If a user places a proxy wager for 100 and the market moves to where they have a value of 1000, they can choose to sell their shares to receive 900 credits and reimburse the proxy liquidity to be used in the future.  In other words, if you have 500 mana and 10 people, instead of injecting 500 mana of liquidity into a market that 10 people will be incentivized to wager their own funds on, we should give 50 mana in 'proxy wagers' to each person with the expectation that they will have to invest cognitive labor to earn a profit that they get to retain. The two important principles here are that the liquidity injections (which can be contributed by any users) are (1) what determine the ceiling initial investment in a proposition and (2) the extent of the losses the liquidity will cover.   Overall, there are many aspects of this demonstration that would have to come together to provide a true approximation of what I'm trying to convince the open source community to build.   1. The function of the system would have to exist decentrally.  This could happen if we truly considered the krantz mechanism an abstract function that various competing markets compete to align.  Much how there are different sports betting applications with different interfaces individuals can choose to use, the actual 'sports odds' are distributed across a network of competitive forecasters and are kept accurate by the market. 2. Each account would need to be humanity verified.  This is biggest hurdle to overcome.  It is important to understand that this would not require restricting users from using bots.  It would only restrict them to having one account that 'speaks on their behalf'.  In other words, as long as we don't have individuals with multiple accounts, we can hold the individuals accountable for the actions of their bot. 3.  It would take an incredible investment of liquidity to see the scaling effects of such a market.  Enough liquidity to incentivize everyone to evaluate/wager on the portions of their own Tractatus that you are willing to pay them to think about.   In general, the purpose of this demonstration is to show people a way to directly incentivize others to realize what they might want to think about by providing game theoretic market incentives that require them to wager on their beliefs. I've written several other questions that demonstrate aspects of this project. Examples of how we might use this process to align constitutions: https://manifold.markets/Krantz/if-a-friendly-ai-takes-control-of-h?r=S3JhbnR6  https://manifold.markets/Krantz/if-the-work-between-anthropic-and-t?r=S3JhbnR6 Wagers on whether a process like this is viable: https://manifold.markets/Krantz/is-establishing-a-truth-economy-tha?r=S3JhbnR6  https://manifold.markets/Krantz/if-eliezer-charitably-reviewed-my-w?r=S3JhbnR6 https://manifold.markets/Krantz/this-is-a-solution-to-alignment?r=S3JhbnR6 A paraphrase of the process of recommending propositions to wager on: https://manifold.markets/Krantz/if-a-machine-is-only-capable-of-ask?r=S3JhbnR6 https://manifold.markets/Krantz/polls-should-able-to-function-like?r=S3JhbnR6 https://manifold.markets/Krantz/define-a-function-that-converts-cap?r=S3JhbnR6 Attention mechanisms: https://manifold.markets/Krantz/what-is-the-most-important-question?r=S3JhbnR6 https://manifold.markets/Krantz/what-topicsissueevent-should-the-ge?r=S3JhbnR6 https://manifold.markets/Krantz/what-person-should-have-the-most-co?r=S3JhbnR6 https://manifold.markets/Krantz/which-predictions-on-manifold-are-t?r=S3JhbnR6 Please consider finding an argument you think is important for people to understand and map it. I personally think it would be amazing if predominant philosophers could offer other philosophers they disagree with 'free bets' to wager on specific crux issues. It would be a function that turns capital into attention. @manifold - Please consider implementing these changes.  I'd love for folks that are capable of writing these sorts of arguments to earn a living by writing them while at the same time providing individuals with no capital the opportunity to earn something for paying attention to them. This market will not resolve and is simply intended to serve as a demonstration of a mechanism for allowing philosophers to wager on what language ought be in a manner that uses the market to lead them to their cruxes.  *This demonstration does not include the algorithm I keep talking about. It's function is to evaluate the variances between user 'Tractati' (plural of Tractatus??) and recommend inferential trajectories that efficiently surface contradictions within the system.
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